Home | Message Board Home

View Page: [<<] ... 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 ... [>>]

5/3/04 Tony G Message #1986   I think this years graduating class should do something to let the school know that they should be doing more. You know Josh would do it for YOU.

5/3/04 Anonymous Message #1985   I am a close friend of josh's, and I was up at SJU helping search for him every day they would let us. I know as a friend that if they're going to search again that I'd be there. WE haven't forgot about you josh, you're still in our thoughts and prayers

5/3/04 Aubs Message #1984   Nick -- Slight correction: ALL (not most) of the students in the area who disappeared after drinking have been found, except of course Josh. >> 'CSB student' -- You write, "Alcohol has been a factor in all of the college students recently--blame Josh's disappearance on alcohol..." Your statement is not completely accurate; alcohol did not play a role in the abduction of UND college student Dru Sjodin -- except possibly on the part of the offender. Also, I think it’s unfair to Josh (and, frankly, a little mean) to blame his disappearance on alcohol, without offering a shred of factual evidence that Josh was legally intoxicated or that alcohol played any role in his disappearance. >> Hannah -- You write, "Had he been drunk enough to fall in a lake or get turned around, there would be more evidence to prove this." I think you are correct in suggesting that we should be careful not to make wild claims about Josh having drowned, in the absence of factual or credible evidence to that effect.

5/3/04 anony Message #1983   Hannah what u expect them to say?--some may have gotten into trouble for providing alcohol to a minor!

5/3/04 Hannah Message #1982   Anonymous, I'm very much aware of the amount of drinking that goes on the CSB and SJU campuses. I turned 21 two days after Josh did, and have seen first hand how drunk people get at the bars in St. Joe. I do believe that some people are very lucky that they don't get lost or hit by a car on their way home. Regardless, the facts that we have are that his friends said, which is the only real knowledge we have of how much Josh drank, "he wasn't visibly intoxicated." All I'm saying is that I know that Josh partied, the majority of people that are in college, regardless of age, party. The fact of the matter is, from what I know of Josh from growing up with him, is that if he drank he most certainly was responsible. Had he been drunk enough to fall in a lake or get turned around, there would be more evidence to prove this.

5/3/04 Anonymous Message #1981   because his friend is missing and some people on this message board don't seem to care

5/3/04 anon Message #1980   "Nick-- ... why so defensive??"

5/3/04 Nick Message #1979   "CSB Student" wrote: "Alcohol has been a factor in all of the college students recently--blame Josh's disappearance on alcohol (the real culprit) not some stupid serial killer!!" Apparently, you wish to infer that because alcohol was a factor in other disappearances, it was in Josh's as well. If you want to make such inferences, let's look at where these cases differ. Most of the students in the area who disappeared after drinking have been found. Josh has not. If alcohol had somehow caused him to do something that led to his death, it's likely he would not have made it far. But the campus has been searched quite thoroughly, and the lakes cleared by a premiere diving team. But, based on what's happened in other cases, you want us to simply blame alcohol and be done with it? The logic simply doesn't follow. Indeed, the wish to simply blame alcohol without actually finding Josh is patently absurd. Please, everyone, let's get back to the question at hand.

5/3/04 anonymous Message #1978   I tend to agree with the majority here--Josh should have known better than to drink so much--also the opinions of the students with him prior to his disappearing are probably way off on the amount of alcohol he used--his peers were so BLITZED they would have had NO idea!!

5/3/04 Nick Message #1977   The college drinking culture is of at most tangential relevance. Yes, drinking impairs one's judgment, but blaming Josh's friends (and him) is not what we should be doing. As I stated (and I certainly haven't been convinced otherwise), the ONLY thing that matters here is finding Josh. Blaming people (other than those who were involved in foul play, of course) is simply a red herring, distracting us from the issue at hand. Nationally-renowned experts have told us that Josh is almost certainly not in the water at St. John's. That means he is almost certainly somewhere else. Blaming his friends for drinking with him is not going to help us determine where he is.

5/3/04 CSB student Message #1976   Alcohol has been a factor in all of the college students recently--blame Josh's disappearance on alcohol (the real culprit) not some stupid serial killer!!

5/3/04 SJU student Message #1975   It doesn't matter how responsible someone is--if they even has one drink their judgment is impaired!!

5/3/04 anonymous Message #1974   Wendy and Hannah you are in MAJOR denial about the college alcohol culture--UW-LaCrosse knows!!

5/3/04 .. Message #1973   Still, it does not seem a prudent thing to house known sexual predators on a college campus ... does it make sense to you?

5/3/04 Hannah (continued) Message #1972   I went to high school with Josh and can tell you that he is one of the most responsible people I know, and that had he been too intoxicated to go anywhere alone safely he would have asked someone to come with him. So for those of you who continue to feel the need to blame Josh for having drank at the age of 20 need to put your energy towards making productive comments. We all miss you Josh and pray everyday for the answers that will bring us closer to finding you.

5/3/04 Hannah Message #1971   For everyone who is getting all upset because you think that St. John's wasn't providing enough security the night that Josh disappeared need a reality check. As a current CSB student who spent freshmen year at UMD, I can say that the level of security that CSB and SJU have compared to duluth is much higher. If SJU was to increase the level of security you would hear the students complaining because there is too much security and that we wouldn't have any freedom. The fact that SJU didn't bust anyone for underage drinking is not the reason that Josh disappeared.

5/3/04 Wendy Message #1970   After reading most of these postings from the last few days, I feel very upset at some people and their narrow minds. If you don't know Josh, don't make accusations. I can count on one hand (of most people that I know) that did not drink underage. And that was just in High School. Josh is such an outstanding person. Responsible and mature. Unless you know something different than the people that were with him the night he dissapeared, please don't accuse anyone of being responsible. Like Katie said, Let's not forget what has happened here. Josh is still missing. We will never loose hope. Your Friends miss you and love you Josh! Kate, keep hope and disregard any bull! Love ya!

5/3/04 .. Message #1969   Mark? How about letting the sheriff's dept. know you are eager to help. Look at all the other cases in which volunteers were enlisted to assist, not to mention the many cases in which "civilians" have made discoveries. It has been very puzzling to me why so much of this case has been "hush hush" -- even the family has been deprived of relevant information purportedly because it might "hamper ongoing investigations." Well, gee, one would think the parents ought to be in the loop ... or am I missing something here...Tom where are you??

5/3/04 Aunt Barb Message #1968   Hey Josh, just got back from visiting David and Peyton in Chicago. We all miss you and want you home with us. I was heartened to see news of a new search when I got back. I'm glad to see activity on the case again. I'm sure some of it has to do with constant pressure from everyone who knows and loves you to keep it active. I miss you Joshua and I pray for you every night. Love, Aunt Barb

5/3/04 Mark Message #1967   Just wondering if Stearns Co. is going to keep their plans regarding the upcoming search a secret? Why not publicly declare the search date and why not start recruiting volunteers to do a foot search at the same time? I'd grab my yellow lab and be there in an hour if the request was made!

5/3/04 .. Message #1966   "Does any liability extend only to the employer, or can individuals members of management who had prior knowledge of the alleged problem be held personally liable for inaction?" Okay, this sounds like one of those "rhetorical" questions to which the answer is, of course, yes. Tom, is that you? C'mon, help us out here, should the Guimond family be pursuing SJU for damages for negligence in providing adequate security for students?

5/3/04 .. Message #1965   I'm not a lawyer, but...I'm going to say that I think the Guimond family may have grounds for a civil suit against the university...for not providing adequate security for the well being of their child. The school goes on, but a student seems to have disappeared forever. Does that sound okay to anyone?

5/3/04 anonymus Message #1964   Aubs you use intellectualization very well as a "defense mechanism"--get a life and face reality!

5/3/04 Anonymous Message #1963   Does anyone know the law in cases where the management of a company or corporation receives repeated warnings from employees about abusive behavior on the part of a person in a supervisory position, including written complaints, and that supervisor then goes on to inflict bodily harm to someone in the workplace? Does any liability extend only to the employer, or can individuals members of management who had prior knowledge of the alleged problem be held personally liable for inaction? How does it affect any criminal culpability or civil liability if it can be shown that an individual member or members of management shielded a supervisor subsequent to written warnings but prior to the hypothetical incident of workplace violence?

5/3/04 .. Message #1962   I think "anon's" reference to underage drinking on the campus grounds connects to a deeper line of thinking, which is the liability of SJU with regard to the safety and well being of its students. Do the Guimonds have a reasonable case against the university for not providing adequate personal safety for their son? This notion might rile you, but consider it more deeply. The university has failed to adequately assist the Guimonds in uncovering what happened to their son, who should be graduating right now along with the rest of his friends. What parent in the right mind could ever accept this situation? The university needs to pony up the financial resources necessary to help this family learn what happened to their son. It's a question of doing the right thing -- how can a school that prides itself on being a top Christian Univ. behave this way?? SJU, put your money where your mouth is and walk the talk.

5/2/04 Aubs Message #1960   A process of elimination (let me know if I overlooked something): (1) Trident cleared the lakes and there’s no credible evidence that Josh drowned accidentally. (2) There’s no evidence whatsoever that Josh took his own life. (3) Josh had no plausible motive to disappear voluntarily. (4) There’s no evidence that Josh was involved in illegal activity, ruling out criminal enterprise homicide. (5) There’s no evidence that Josh had personal enemies or was involved in a serious dispute or argument, ruling out personal-cause homicide. (6) There’s no credible evidence that Josh "got turned around" and succumbed in a low-lying, swampy area; however, investigators will reportedly make another attempt soon to rule this out definitively. (7) There appears to be no physical evidence of a crime; however, foul play has not been ruled out. To pursue this line of investigation, consult two anonymous postings dated 4/4/2004, 10:24:25 and 9:45:02 PM, for some pressing questions in search of answers.

5/2/04 Aubs Message #1959   SJU does a good job of educating students about the risks of alcohol. As Mark points out, it’s unreasonable to expect the school to "baby-sit" its students; indeed, I think it would provoke an outcry if they tried. Of course, 'anon' is correct in pointing out that alcohol is a risk factor -- not only for accidents, but for victimization by a sexual predator. 'SJU student' is also right in exhorting us to drink responsibly (if at all) and to look out for one another. But, as Nick says, it’s counterproductive to focus on alcohol as the proximate cause of Josh’s disappearance. After all, if Josh had vanished 7 months and 9 days later at age 21, would the situation be substantively any different? Let’s not get mired in technicalities. In Nick’s words, "The only question that matters is what happened to Josh." One way to proceed in the search for truth is through a rational process of elimination. (To be continued, owing to the 1,000-character space limitation on this message board.)

5/2/04 Nick Message #1958   Blaming Josh's friends for his drinking is wrong, cruel, and counterproductive. Josh is the type who can handle his alcohol; most accounts, at least, of that night indicate that he was not excessively drunk. Unless you believe that drinking is morally wrong, I don't think that those at the gathering that night were responsible for what happened. A group of friends was hanging out, drinking beer, and playing cards. It happens all the time. More important than arguments over blameworthiness, however, is Katie's point: trying to blame Josh's friends is counterproductive. The only question that matters is what happened to Josh. Arguing that Josh's friends (or SJU, for that matter) are to blame for his consumption of alcohol that night is to ignore the only question that matters, and instead to make his friends, who have gone through a horrible experience, feel even worse.

5/2/04 .. Message #1957   Underage drinking aside, I do think it is incumbent upon the university to ensure the highest degree of student safety. Is having known sexual offenders located in the midst of a college campus really a good idea?

5/2/04 SJU student Message #1956   I agree with anon--I think we have responsibility to drink responsibly and to watch our peers

5/2/04 Mark Message #1955   Please don't attack Katie...my God, I don't think it's possible to understand what she's been through. Personally, I don't think you can point blame at SJU for "letting" students drink. They are not babysitters. And at what point between 20 years old and 21 years old do you become wise to the dangers of drinking?

5/2/04 anon Message #1954   "Katie you miss my point. Regardless of HOW Josh disappeared if he was using ANY alcohol his judgment was impaired and he was a more likely VICTIM if he disappeared by foul play. ... His friends and SJU ARE responsible for letting him drink!"

5/2/04 Katie Message #1953   It's hard to point the finger at who's respondsible for Josh's disappearance when we don't know what happened. If there was foul play involved then THAT person is respondsible. It is unfair and cruel to blame Josh's friends. They have been through enough, and they don't need you pointing a finger at them. Have compassion for students who are missing their best friend. Second, it is inappropriate to blame the victim. Again, if foul play was involved, it is not Josh's fault. The only person at fault is the individual who is respondsible. The most important thing here is that Josh is still missing, and we don't know what happened to him. To blame Josh for drinking when he was 20 years old on a college campus is not going to help anything. On any given weekend night on any college campus there are underage students who are drinking. That doesn't make it legal, but it's certainly not the focus of this investigation. It is finding out what happened to Joshua.

5/2/04 anon Message #1952   If Josh was underage grinking on campus at the time of his disappearance the people responsible are: Josh, his friends, SJU for not enforcing minor consumption laws!

5/2/04 anon Message #1951   Doesn't matter how drunk he was--he was still participating in illegal activity that was condoned by SJU

5/2/04 Aubs Message #1950   Katie: My apologies for posting my previous message as 'Anonymous.' I inadvertently neglected to complete the 'Name' field. You make a good point with your observation that "the area down to the water where Josh crossed the bridge had thick brush." I think you’re also correct in noting that "a person would have to work to get down to the water, and there would be evidence of that struggle." I used to fish that area for northern pike years ago. It’s really difficult in most places to get down to the water to find a spot to cast. Also, some of the underbrush is rather dense and thorny. I’ve ripped my shirt and scratched my legs, arms, neck, and face on more than one occasion in that particular area. If Josh had fought his way through there to get to the water, I would imagine he left some fiber or blood evidence in the underbrush. I don’t know why, but the brush and trees near the culvert were recently removed (perhaps to make it accessible to canoes?).

5/2/04 Anonymous Message #1949   Katie: As a coda to my previous post, I must note in fairness that investigators thought "inconsistent statements from those at the party where Josh was last seen make it difficult to know exactly how much" ... "alcohol and possibly drugs could have been a factor." Consequently, "they’ve asked at least one person to take a polygraph to clear up such inconsistencies" (St. Cloud Times, Nov. 9, 2003). I’ve encountered one lone source to suggest that Josh could have been intoxicated. I don’t know if his is a first-hand account, but I was struck by this witness’s particular choice of words: On January 23, 2003, he told me, "Josh was drunk as a skunk the night he disappeared." This individual then kind of chuckled. It seemed to me that evidently it must have been a comical sight to behold. Now mind you, I don’t know the basis for his conclusion that Josh was "drunk as a skunk" -- like a strong smell of alcohol on the breath, a stumbling gait, incoherent speech, hearsay, whatever.

5/2/04 Aubs Message #1948   Katie: Thanks for reminding us that Josh was reasonably sober, but certainly coherent and rational, the night he vanished. We hear of drownings where alcohol played a role -- such as the recent case at UW-L -- and over time we begin to misattribute the information and get the details confused and confabulated in our minds. To establish a more factual basis for Josh’s likely state of mind at the time, let’s go back to some of the earlier reporting: "The night he disappeared, Guimond and some friends walked from an on-campus apartment to a friend’s apartment about five minutes away. 'The whole walk down there he was in a great mood,' said Greg Worden, a friend and former roommate. 'Everything seemed normal.' Over the next hour, the group of friends drank beer and played cards. Worden and several other friends said Guimond didn’t appear intoxicated." (Associated Press, Nov. 10, 2003).

5/2/04 Aubs Message #1947   Katie: You know Josh’s habits, his typical responses to situations, better than anyone. The information you provide is insightful. It’s also common sense. To believe that Josh had gotten "turned around and lost" (what the heck does *that* mean, anyway), you'd have to believe that Josh defied all human survival instincts and headed away from light and into darkness. Humans have a primordial fear of anything that threatened survival in the Stone Age, when we evolved most of our current protective mechanisms. Fear of darkness is etched in our brains. We’ll avoid darkness even when our critical faculties are impaired by alcohol -- unlike cars, which are dangerous but not part of the Pleistocene landscape. Josh may have unwisely tried to drive his car (we know he didn’t), but it’s hard to imagine he would have struggled through rough terrain into pitch darkness when he had the safe, easy alternative of a gentle stroll along paved walkways and tended lawns, illuminated by many, many lights.

5/1/04 Katie Message #1946   For Josh to have consumed enough alcohol to wander off or get turned around and lost, he would have been stumbling and falling. It is likely that he would have dropped something, and he wouldn’t have been able to walk the distance over uneven ground to the marshy/bog area. Also, the people he was with said he did not appear that drunk. He would have displayed signs of intoxication if he was too drunk to find his way back to his apartment, and he was not the type of person to take late night walks by himself or wander around in the wooded areas on campus.

5/1/04 Katie Message #1945   Mark...Josh is very coherent when he drinks. I have never seen him consume alcohol to the point where he could not find his way home or get lost. He has a terrific sense of direction, and he does not get turned around very easily. To walk in the wrong direction from where he was at, he would have had to walk away from all the buildings, lights, and people. The path is pretty straight to his dorm from the apartment he was at, and the surrounding areas are dark and wooded. Also, the area down to the water where Josh crossed the bridge had thick brush. A person would have to work to get down to the water, and there would be evidence of that struggle.

5/1/04 Mothers Against Flat EEGs ... Message #1944   (Cont'd) The slough where Josh supposedly fell into the water is just a few inches deep near the culvert where Josh is thought to have crossed, and drops off to about 10 feet. You can practically spit across it with a good tailwind. The Mississippi in the area where UW-L student Jared Dion drowned last month is about 18 feet deep near the shoreline and searchers described the current as "swift." Yet Jared’s body was recovered in 5 days. Yesterday, in Le Sueur County, 9-year-old Brian Jacobson (God bless his soul) drowned after panicking and jumping from a boat 75 yards from shore when it drifted loose from a dock. The lake was too murky for diving, so rescue teams had to drag it. They recovered the boy's body in just 4 hours. I read somewhere last year that Stearns County dive teams have never failed to recover a drowning victim. If Josh really drowned, how do we account for the fact that no one seems to be able to find his body? Think about it.

5/1/04 Mothers Against Flat EEGs ... Message #1943   Anyone who thinks Josh fell into a lake on campus and is still in there needs a breathalyzer test -- or a serious check-up from the neck up. Has a pedestrian ever drowned on campus? The lakes on campus were cleared by the Trident Foundation, folks. That's C-L-E-A-R-E-D. Trident is the cream of the crop. The Foundation sets the standards for and handles national dive team accreditation, including expert evaluation of dive teams’ training, equipment, personnel, and operational readiness, for crying out loud. C-L-E-A-R-E-D! Can everyone read? If you saw the little slough where Josh was initially thought to have fallen into the water, you'd know that only a fool could believe that Josh would be in there and not be found in 18 months, in the most intensive search operation ever mounted by Stearns County authorities, next to the search for Jacob Wetterling.

5/1/04 Mark Message #1942   Katie, you know Josh better than anyone here...even if he had too much to drink (who hasn't been in that situation) would he really have just wandered off to a marshy bog area and fallen in? Man, I feel bad for you...so very sorry.

5/1/04 Katie Message #1941   Josh did not have that much to drink the night he disappeared. The guys he was with said that he could function fairly normal. Also, the lakes on campus have been searched by a professional search team called the Trident Foundation. The Trident Foundation cleared the lakes, and it should be noted that the Trident Foundation has never cleared a body of water and later had a body found in the water. Jared Dion, a missing student from UW-L, was found after five days in the Mississippi on April 15, 2004. The Mississippi has a much stronger current than any waters at SJU.

5/1/04 Anonymous Message #1940   If Josh was drinking when he disappeared then he was involved in illegal activity. Also the St. John's U should have been policing the campus better to eliminate drinking! Then it never would have happened!

5/1/04 anon Message #1939   They found the LaCRosse guy in the river with 5 times the legal alchol limit--it is likely that Josh had the same fate

5/1/04 Bubsy Message #1936   "Mark, you say ''There's no time to waste. I haven't checked the extended forecast, but hopefully there's no rain in sight for a while.'' Well pardner I checked and matter-a-fact there's a spit o' rain movin' in this minute, with showers anticipated this afternoon and overnight. Let's hope the rain ain't severe enough to be impeding the search, but time's a-wastin'. Sunday will be mostly cloudy. Monday will be partly cloudy with the threat of showers. Tuesday will sunny fer the most part. Wednesday likewise. Overall, though, not too bad but them horses will have to shake a leg. Also, spring greenup ain't dallyin' around fer no one an' you don't want them bogs an' swamps gittin' all overgrown an' stuff. Tough enough to get in there as it is. ... "

5/1/04 Mark Message #1935   "Am I understanding this correctly? Are there areas of campus that HAVE NOT been searched? Were these boggy areas ever searched by foot? How far off the beaten path are these areas? ... Hop to it searchers! There's no time to waste. I haven't checked the extended forecast, but hopefully there's no rain in sight for a while."

5/1/04 Mark Message #1934   "(continued) ... Guimond's father made news in March, when university officials asked a Stearns County judge to prevent Brian Guimond from coming to campus without an escort. The request for the restraining order cites behavior by Brian Guimond that students who knew Josh Guimond called harassing and intimidating, according to court records. School security staff have reported threats, profanities and abusive behavior from Brian Guimond since his son disappeared. ... A hearing on the request is scheduled for this month. ... "

View Page: [<<] ... 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 ... [>>]

Contact Us